{ "attachments": [], "comments_archived": true, "date": "2003-07-07T15:54:14.000Z", "layout": "post", "title": "Washed Up, Huh?", "wordpress_id": 437, "wordpress_slug": "washed-up-huh", "wordpress_url": "http://www.decafbad.com/blog/?p=437", "year": "2003", "month": "07", "day": "07", "isDir": false, "slug": "washed-up-huh", "type": "entry", "postName": "2003-07-07-washed-up-huh", "html": "
\nMr Safe: Tim Bray said you're all washed up, kind of like Charles Goldfarb.\n
\n\n\n
Source:backend.userland.com: Checking in with Mr Safe\n\n
\n\n\n
\nDave Winer has done a tremendous amount of work on RSS and invented\nimportant parts of it and deserves a huge amount of credit for getting\nus as far as we have. However, just looking around, I observe that\nthere are many people and organizations who seem unable to maintain a\ngood working relationship with Dave.\n\n\n\n

I regularly get pissed-off at Dave but I really truly do think he's\ntrying to Do The Right Thing; but there are many people out there who\ncan't get past being pissed off. This is what life is like.

\n

There's an uncannny echo here, for me. The thing that came before XML\nwas called SGML. SGML was largely invented, and its landscape\ndominated, by a burly, bearded, brilliant New Yorker, Charles\nGoldfarb, who is currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\nthe Definitive XML Series of books for Prentice-Hall. Charles is\nloquacious, persistent, smart, loud-voiced, and nearly always gets his\nway.

\n

There were a lot of people out there (still are, I guess) whom Charles\ndrives completely nuts and just won't work with him. Which is one of\nthe reasons that, when we invented XML, we felt the need to give it a\nnew name and a new acronym and so on. Mind you, Charles, who as I said\nis no dummy, climbed on board the XML bandwagon about fifteen seconds\nafter it got rolling and was a major help in getting the thing\nfinished and delivered.

\n
\n\n\n
Source:ongoing: I Like Pie\n\n
\n\n\n\n\n\n

I'm very confused about this. Dave (or rather, Mr Safe) says that Tim Bray\nsaid something nasty about him here. In fact, Dave says that Tim said\nhe's all washed up, like Charles Goldfarb.

\n

But as I read it, I'd love to be washed up like Charles Goldfarb,\nseeing as he's \"currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\n... books for Prentice-Hall\", having \"climbed on board the XML bandwagon\nabout fifteen seconds after it got rolling and was a major help\nin getting the thing finished and delivered\". Sounds like Mr. Goldfarb\nis still very active in his community, still considered an authority,\nand is being rewarded for it. I hope I'm that kind of washed up someday.

\n

In fact, it'd be pretty keen if that's what people meant if someday\nthey said, \"Les is Dead\", though I can't find where Tim said that.

\n

So, where's the nastiness? It's not like Tim took notes from\nMark's spanish lessons\nand told Dave to go \"chinga tu madre\" or \"come verga\". That's nasty.\nFar as I can tell, Tim compared Dave to a guy in another community\nwho has his own contingent of haters yet is still undeniably a brilliant\nguy just trying to Do The Right Thing as he sees it.

\n

Was the nastiness in saying that some people can't \"maintain a good\nworking relationship with Dave\"? Or that Tim gets \"regularly ...\npissed-off at Dave\"? I mean, they're both obviously true. It would\nhave been nasty and untrue had Tim said that no one can maintain a\ngood relationship with Dave, because there are also obviously a lot of\npeople who do. But, Tim didn't say that.

\n

So, as far as I see, I'd personally be happy to have Tim Bray write\nabout me like this in public.

\n\n\n\n

shortname=washed_up_huh

\n

Archived Comments

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n", "body": "
\r\nMr Safe: Tim Bray said you're all washed up, kind of like Charles Goldfarb.\r\n
\r\n
Source:backend.userland.com: Checking in with Mr Safe
\r\n
\r\nDave Winer has done a tremendous amount of work on RSS and invented\r\nimportant parts of it and deserves a huge amount of credit for getting\r\nus as far as we have. However, just looking around, I observe that\r\nthere are many people and organizations who seem unable to maintain a\r\ngood working relationship with Dave.\r\n

\r\nI regularly get pissed-off at Dave but I really truly do think he's\r\ntrying to Do The Right Thing; but there are many people out there who\r\ncan't get past being pissed off. This is what life is like.\r\n

\r\nThere's an uncannny echo here, for me. The thing that came before XML\r\nwas called SGML. SGML was largely invented, and its landscape\r\ndominated, by a burly, bearded, brilliant New Yorker, Charles\r\nGoldfarb, who is currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\r\nthe Definitive XML Series of books for Prentice-Hall. Charles is\r\nloquacious, persistent, smart, loud-voiced, and nearly always gets his\r\nway.\r\n

\r\nThere were a lot of people out there (still are, I guess) whom Charles\r\ndrives completely nuts and just won't work with him. Which is one of\r\nthe reasons that, when we invented XML, we felt the need to give it a\r\nnew name and a new acronym and so on. Mind you, Charles, who as I said\r\nis no dummy, climbed on board the XML bandwagon about fifteen seconds\r\nafter it got rolling and was a major help in getting the thing\r\nfinished and delivered.\r\n
\r\n
Source:ongoing: I Like Pie
\r\n

\r\nI'm very confused about this. Dave (or rather, Mr Safe) says that Tim Bray\r\nsaid something nasty about him here. In fact, Dave says that Tim said\r\nhe's all washed up, like Charles Goldfarb.\r\n

\r\nBut as I read it, I'd love to be washed up like Charles Goldfarb,\r\nseeing as he's \"currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\r\n... books for Prentice-Hall\", having \"climbed on board the XML bandwagon\r\nabout fifteen seconds after it got rolling and was a major help\r\nin getting the thing finished and delivered\". Sounds like Mr. Goldfarb\r\nis still very active in his community, still considered an authority,\r\nand is being rewarded for it. I hope I'm that kind of washed up someday.\r\n

\r\nIn fact, it'd be pretty keen if that's what people meant if someday\r\nthey said, \"Les is Dead\", though I can't find where Tim said that.\r\n

\r\nSo, where's the nastiness? It's not like Tim took notes from\r\nMark's spanish lessons\r\nand told Dave to go \"chinga tu madre\" or \"come verga\". That's nasty.\r\nFar as I can tell, Tim compared Dave to a guy in another community\r\nwho has his own contingent of haters yet is still undeniably a brilliant\r\nguy just trying to Do The Right Thing as he sees it.\r\n

\r\nWas the nastiness in saying that some people can't \"maintain a good\r\nworking relationship with Dave\"? Or that Tim gets \"regularly ...\r\npissed-off at Dave\"? I mean, they're both obviously true. It would\r\nhave been nasty and untrue had Tim said that no one can maintain a\r\ngood relationship with Dave, because there are also obviously a lot of\r\npeople who do. But, Tim didn't say that.\r\n

\r\nSo, as far as I see, I'd personally be happy to have Tim Bray write\r\nabout me like this in public.\r\n\r\nshortname=washed_up_huh\r\n\r\n
\r\n

Archived Comments

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n ", "parentPath": "./content/posts/archives/2003", "path": "2003/07/07/washed-up-huh", "summary": "Mr Safe: Tim Bray said you're all washed up, kind of like Charles Goldfarb.\n\n\n\nSource:backend.userland.com: Checking in with Mr Safe\n\n\n\n\n\nDave Winer has done a tremendous amount of work on RSS and invented\nimportant parts of it and deserves a huge amount of credit for getting\nus as far as we have. However, just looking around, I observe that\nthere are many people and organizations who seem unable to maintain a\ngood working relationship with Dave.\n\n\n\nI regularly get pissed-off at Dave but I really truly do think he's\ntrying to Do The Right Thing; but there are many people out there who\ncan't get past being pissed off. This is what life is like.\nThere's an uncannny echo here, for me. The thing that came before XML\nwas called SGML. SGML was largely invented, and its landscape\ndominated, by a burly, bearded, brilliant New Yorker, Charles\nGoldfarb, who is currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\nthe Definitive XML Series of books for Prentice-Hall. Charles is\nloquacious, persistent, smart, loud-voiced, and nearly always gets his\nway.\nThere were a lot of people out there (still are, I guess) whom Charles\ndrives completely nuts and just won't work with him. Which is one of\nthe reasons that, when we invented XML, we felt the need to give it a\nnew name and a new acronym and so on. Mind you, Charles, who as I said\nis no dummy, climbed on board the XML bandwagon about fifteen seconds\nafter it got rolling and was a major help in getting the thing\nfinished and delivered.\n\n\n\nSource:ongoing: I Like Pie\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI'm very confused about this. Dave (or rather, Mr Safe) says that Tim Bray\nsaid something nasty about him here. In fact, Dave says that Tim said\nhe's all washed up, like Charles Goldfarb.\nBut as I read it, I'd love to be washed up like Charles Goldfarb,\nseeing as he's \"currently making a well-deserved killing bringing out\n... books for Prentice-Hall\", having \"climbed on board the XML bandwagon\nabout fifteen seconds after it got rolling and was a major help\nin getting the thing finished and delivered\". Sounds like Mr. Goldfarb\nis still very active in his community, still considered an authority,\nand is being rewarded for it. I hope I'm that kind of washed up someday.\nIn fact, it'd be pretty keen if that's what people meant if someday\nthey said, \"Les is Dead\", though I can't find where Tim said that.\nSo, where's the nastiness? It's not like Tim took notes from\nMark's spanish lessons\nand told Dave to go \"chinga tu madre\" or \"come verga\". That's nasty.\nFar as I can tell, Tim compared Dave to a guy in another community\nwho has his own contingent of haters yet is still undeniably a brilliant\nguy just trying to Do The Right Thing as he sees it.\nWas the nastiness in saying that some people can't \"maintain a good\nworking relationship with Dave\"? Or that Tim gets \"regularly ...\npissed-off at Dave\"? I mean, they're both obviously true. It would\nhave been nasty and untrue had Tim said that no one can maintain a\ngood relationship with Dave, because there are also obviously a lot of\npeople who do. But, Tim didn't say that.\nSo, as far as I see, I'd personally be happy to have Tim Bray write\nabout me like this in public.", "needsBuild": true, "prevPostPath": "2003/07/05/added-a-scroll", "prevPostTitle": "Added a scroller?", "nextPostPath": "2003/07/07/syndications-formats", "nextPostTitle": "Is the magic in RSS, or in Syndication?" }